Changes between Initial Version and Version 1 of Meetings/Workshops/20090311

Timestamp:

Mar 14, 2009, 12:50:03 PM (17 years ago)

Author:

/C=FR/O=CNRS/OU=UMR8607/CN=Michel Jouvin/emailAddress=jouvin@…

Comment:

--

Meetings/Workshops/20090311

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+= Quattor Workshop - London - 11-13/3/09 =
+[[TracNav]]
+
+[[TOC(inline)]]
+
+See [http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceTimeTable.py?confId=50010&showDate=all&showSession=all&detailLevel=contribution&viewMode=parallel Agenda].
+
+== Site Reports ==
+
+=== LAL - G. Philippon ===
+
+=== Grid Ireland - S. Childs ===
+
+Not much changes in the number of admins or resources
+ * Virtualization of most nodes (Xen)
+ 
+Developments in monitoring:
+ * NAgios + Ganglia
+ * MonAMI to feed Ganglia from DPM and Torque
+ * LEMON : upgraded to lemon-web on SL5
+
+Many tools upgraded : checkdeps, quatview
+ * ncm-accounts massive speedup
+
+SCDB : merge "hierarchical site" model into trunk
+
+Issues:
+ * Get network and file sytems fully under Quattor control
+ * Consistent scheme for monitoring in Quattor
+ * Dummy WN speedup trick integrated into the compiler
+ 
+
+=== NIKHEF - R. Starink ===
+
+4 clusters: 300 machines
+ * Currently 5 people involved with Quattor
+
+SCDB + local changes: deployment not done by SCDB bu by local tools to allow deployment of a specific machine
+ * Related to historical way of managing systems at NIKHEF but has the disadventage that a postponed change deployment may break something later on some other nodes...
+
+Xen: 7 hosts, 38 guests
+ * Based on QWG but issues with host and guests in different clusters: workaround found
+
+Monitoring entirely based on Nagios with 1 master and 3 slaves
+ * Based on QWG but some mods to handle hierarchy of servers that are willing to share
+
+panc v7 to v8 transition: no problem but no performance improvement observed
+ * Very happy of new logging features
+ 
+NCM components:
+ * ncm-openvpn to configure server and clients
+ * ncm-yaim: complete refactoring/rewriting, new features, some backward incompatible changes
+ 
+Issues:
+ * WN compilation speed-up has some pb with compile-time dependency
+ * Strength of community with increase usage: what about the ability to support everybody?
+ 
+=== LAPP - E. Fede ===
+
+Quattor server is running on a VMware virtual machine
+ * 110 profiles
+ * 4 people using it
+
+Running autobuild of RPMs for NCM components and other core components from SourceForge
+ * http://lapp.in2p3.fr/Quattor
+ * trunk and tags/latest
+ * repodata available from YUM
+
+=== CERN - V. Lefébure ===
+
+Main instance: 7500 profiles in 139 clusters
+ * +1200 increase
+ * 1900 profiles corresponding to machines not managed by Quattor
+ * Running the last version of CDB, panc v8 ready
+ * v8: 20% improvement in compile time but not yet in production. all know issues solved
+   * Problem of use of RECORD type by some components (ncm-httpd, ncm-tomcat....)
+
+Xen-based virtualization: support for SLC5 hypervisors ready
+
+Issues of number of users: 65 ACL groups
+
+Package list templates: working on automation
+ * Use of comps.xml
+ * Automatic detection of missing dependencies
+
+CDB2SQL: Python version fast but buggy, no manpower to fix it, reverted to previous version
+
+
+=== Morgan & Stanley - N. Williams ===
+
+In production now: AQB, AQDB, LEMON
+ * 7500 nodes, compile at 10 minutes (8-core machine) but aii-shellfe --notify at 1h (with patches not yet committed) !
+ * 5 template admins
+ * New building just commissionned and expect to double the number of machine in the next months, plan to keep one server (+1 for redundancy)
+
+Issues:
+ * Format change of XML profiles painful: dropping LINK support forces "big-bang" changes
+ * Configuration success feedback: thinking at implementing a DB of last time a component was run, updated by ncm-ncd/ncm-cidspd that could be compared with the timestamp of the last configuration
+
+Will submit code now via SourceForge
+ * Waiting for approval to open source : AQDB, FUSE interface to configuration browsing, AII, CCM patches 
+
+
+=== UAM - Laura del Caño ===
+
+Luis left, Laura is his replacement.
+
+Proposal of tasks that UAM could handle:
+ * Maintenance of monitoring tools
+ * openvz support
+ * AII
+ 
+5 clusters
+ * Use of ant local tasks for template management
+ * Performance tests of new machines configured with Quattor
+ 
+New component in progress:
+ * ncm-amanda to configure Amanda backup SW
+ * ncm-pnp4nagios
+ 
+Some local developments:
+ * Postgresql DB to store machine info and group them into categories + ant local task to generate the profile and some other templates (monitoring) for the machine
+ * SinDes alternative used to manage secured access to profile (AII hook)
+ 
+=== Greek Grid - D. Zilaskos ===
+
+1 Quattor server to manage 2 clusters representing 133 machines spanning 13 subnets
+ * 4 Xen hosts, 19 guests
+ * SVN server installed with Trac
+ * 3 admins + 2 new people who recently joined
+
+Developpements and issues:
+ * Wiki guides for Quattor newbies
+ * New components: still in progress... some services like Hydra evolving very quickly
+ * Involvement in OAT benefits as work is implemented and tested locally with Quattor
+ * Thinking at an administration model for Southern Europe based on GRIF/GRID Ireland experience
+   * Lot of small sites, very limited effort available...
+   
+=== CNAF - A. Chierici ===
+
+90% of the templates adapted to the new schema
+ * Inspired by QWG
+ * Next step is migration of gLite nodes to SLC5
+ 
+Xen used on 3 servers providing 16 cores each
+ * LHCb T2 running on Xen
+ * Quattor used to configure the profiles of guests but Dom0 managed by hand
+ * Investigating KVM
+ 
+Planning to install soon new ncm-yaim and ncm-accounts
+
+CDB vs. SCDB: still thinking about migration but need to investigate the impact for the users
+ * Is CDB still supported after ME left ?
+ * Who will take care of new core release ? 
+
+Presenting a poster about Quattor at CHEP: anyone who could help to present it ?
+
+One new people to help with Quattor at CNAF (Elisabetha)
+ * All new sysadmins teached to use Quattor
+ 
+
+== Aquilion Drive Through - W. Hertlein ==
+
+Aquilon is an architecture to address system management at M&S, in particular scalability, management delegation, application-centric management...
+ * Goal is to install hundred of machines without any manual intervention
+
+AQDB is the CDB replacement: no direct interaction between users and templates, everything goes through the Aquilon broker (AQB)
+ * Aquilon configuration stored into AQDB
+ 
+Workflow of provisionning machines:
+ * Rack is the unit of work: racks delivered cabled
+   * Limited number of vendors and models
+ * When racks is powered on, top of rack (tor_switch) switch send a DHCP request and receive a temporary address that will allow to configure it after discoverin its type
+   * Switch entered in AQDB
+ * DNS integration : all servers configured with the same information
+   * DNS DB built from a periodic dump of AQDB (every 3h)
+ * DHCP integration: a DHCP server set to server a specific set of machines
+   * Configuration built from a periodic dump of AQDB
+ * Discovering machine: done by scripts scanning the tor_switch an dquerying it with snmp get
+  * Create a machine entry in AQDB for each discovered MAC entry
+ * After a machine has been entered in AQDB, create a machine plenary (PAN) template describing the HW
+  * Machine plenary template is an equivalent of SCDB hardware/machine + the service/personnality
+ * Creating hosts: logical entry for the host created and associated with a plenary template
+  * IP is derived by choosing an available IP from the tor_switch subnet and put in the plenary template to avoid an IP address change triggers recompilation of another host
+ * Wait for the propagation of previous information, in particular DNS: may take a couple of hours
+ * Next day build out the hosts binding host to required services and use panc to compile the template
+  * Invoke aii-shellfe to switch over the install pxe image (done through AQB)
+  * DNS + Krb propagation delay: looking for some optimizations in the future
+ * Finishing the build process: a script runs on the newly built host to update its information in AQDB
+   * Record any management interfaces found and if successful update the status information
+ * Grid hand-off: after successful build of a host, it is transferred to an application groups
+   * Deployment schedules are set up in advance
+   * Use personality to set up a host with application defaults
+   * Spread hosts for a group over several racks for better resilience
+   
+Managing services: a service may have several instance
+ * 1 service instance is bind to a host
+ 
+Monitoring hosts to meet SLA
+ * Hosts are monitored by a daemon that does periodic snmp sweep of all the hosts
+ * Hosts are grouped by personality with a threshold of hosts allowed to be offline
+ * Host personality also defines a reboot schedule: potential previous threshold violation will prevent the reboot
+   * Include some draining capabilities
+ * LEMON is enabled as a service to provide visualization of aggregated metrics
+  * LEMON configured from Aquilon to guarantee consistency
+
+Updating personalities involve working on a local copy of the personality and creating a new temporary one (AQ domain), compiling it with a fake profile and putting the change back into AQDB
+ * Currently no check enforced by 'aq put' that the new version compiles. Rely on conventions...
+ * A test host can be associated with the new personality and reconfigured to validate the changes
+ * AQ then allows to merge changes into a production personality and reconfigure all nodes using it
+ 
+ 
+== Monitoring ==
+
+=== Monitoring Templates in QWG - S. Kenny ===
+
+LEMON:
+ * NCM components: fmonagent, oramonserver
+ * Templates: standard/monitoring/lemon
+ * Web front-end via filecopy
+
+Nagios:
+ * NCM components: nagios, ncg
+ * Templates: standard/monitoring/nagios
+ * A few changes to support Nagios 3
+ * Hosts created from HW DB
+ * Services defied as separate templates and added to NAGIOS_SERVICE_TEMPLATES variable but not very scalable
+ * ncm-ncg currently being developped to produce an input file for WLCG NCG which generates the service definition: looks promising
+
+Ganglia: configured with filecopy
+ * Would be better to have a component generating the required config file on client and server from the site hierarchi description
+
+MonAMI: configured with filecopy 
+
+Currently, every monitoring tool has its own configuration. Ideally monitoring schema should be mostly tool-independant. Proposed model based on current LEMON config:
+ * Host: coming from DB_MACHINE
+ * Cluster: group of nodes sharing the same node types
+ * Super-cluster:
+ * Need to be part of the information in the node profile so that it can be used by several components
+ * May be connected with some representation of M&S personalities into the schema
+
+
+== Core Components ==
+
+=== PAN Compiler - C. Loomis ===
+
+Code hosted on SourceForge since 8.2.6
+ * Bug tracking moved to SF too
+ 
+Production version is v8
+ * v7 deprecated
+ * 8.2.3 : CDB compatibility, annotation
+ * 8.2.4 : selective debugging
+ * 8.2.7 introduces prepend/append functions to replace push/npush
+ 
+Outstanding bugs:
+ * Race condition in validation
+ * Corner cases with unintuitive behaviour
+ * Enforce final flag in structure templates: no real request...
+ 
+Enhancement requests (in priority order):
+ 1. Restricted include (aka entitlements)
+ 1. Add perf tips to documentation
+ 1. XInclude directive to replace Embedded
+ 1. Add OBJECT to debug() and error() output
+ 1. Add prefix/define statements to shorten literal paths
+ 1. Internationalize error messages
+ 1. Enable/disable debugging from within pan
+ 1. Allow include to take a list (from M&S)
+
+ 
+Other ideas/wishes:
+ * Better Eclipse integration: editor, debugger, dialog boxes to select options for ant/pan
+ * Ability to include a file which is not a template inside a template as an alternative to `<<EOF`
+   * File name should be relative to the loadpath as for other templates
+ * Rework string escaping handling for automatic escaping by the compiler and a prefix in the string to know if it has been escaped or not without ambiguity
+   
+Restricted include statements: design questions
+ * Allow the scope of configuration tree changes to be specified when including a template ?
+   * - : require modification of templates to do entitlement
+ * Specified allowed areas of tree ? or restricted (disallowed) areas ?
+   * Need both, discusse if exclude before include or the opposite
+ * Can '/a' be fixed but '/a/b/c' be changed ?
+ * Enforce entitlement on loadpaths ?
+ * What about variables ?
+ * Allow wildcards and/or regular expressions on the template names ?
+ 
+
+=== NCM Components - N. Williams ===
+
+ncm-cron: more smearing
+ * `frequency` may be replaced by `timing`, a nlist allowing to specify a targert (eg. interval into hours) + a smear interval
+ * hours/days/month/... are strings that allow expressions and are validated
+ * If present `timing` takes precedence over `frequency` 
+
+ncm-download: retrieve URL
+ * funtionality similar to filecopy but contents download with curl form a URL
+ * Support proxies
+ * Can use `spnego` support into curl for authenticated access to URL, using Krb principal for example
+ * Support global definition of http server to use and relative URLs
+ * Subclassable: a method allow to tell the component the configuration path to use, instead of the default, allowing the component to be called by another component for one specific file
+   * An idea to reuse in other components like ncm-filecopy
+   * A problem with ncm-ncd which might not match exception
+
+CCM: support for local CCM DB format
+ * Specified with `dbformat`: can be `GDBM_File`, `DB_File`, `CDB_File` (compact DB, nothing to do with Quattor CDB!)
+ * Format is stored in file `.fmt` close to `.db` file: only the writers need to take care of it, read is properly handled by CCM library
+ * Download ''if-modified-since'' local disk version, ignoring the mtime in CDP notification message
+ * ccm-fetch now uses the library coming from ccm-fetch.new (3 years old!)
+
+ncm-cdispd/ncd: would like to add configuration status feedback
+ * `/var/lib/ncm` contains an entry per component:
+   * If the file is empty, component must run
+   * If run successfully, delete the files
+   * If failed, write the exception into the file
+ * If a component is inactive, ncm-cdispd remove the file for the component in `var/lib/ncm` unconditionnaly (without checking its contents)
+
+spma/aii-ks: randomization of proxy choosen when multiple available
+ * If the AII server processing the kickstart file is in the list of proxies, use it
+ * Support for a list of "installack" servers, requested in // to ensure consistency when several AII servers are used in //
+ * Require ncm-nscd start before starting configuration to ensure name service can be restarted without impact on the configuration process
+
+AII: --notify, --firmware, use_fqdn
+ * `--notify`: automatically configures anything thant needs configurating, based on `profiles-info.xml`
+ * `--firmware`sets alternate pxe boot target to boot relevant firmware installer based on HW information from the profile
+   * Schema change required
+   * Reset done by another external tool
+ * Global lock no longer requested for aii-shellfe, only for aii-dhcp.
+   * Only a lock on the specific client host
+ * Fixed caching, created multi-level cache hierarchy where first level is the DNS domain name
+
+
+
+== QWG ==
+
+
+== SourceForge Migration - S. Child ==
+
+Main source repository now on SF as a snapshot (without history)
+ * 22 developpers registered: many active developpers still missing
+   * Send your SF account to Stephen
+ * Build tools basically working but unmaintanable now that ME left
+
+quattor.org now is a wiki (MediaWiki)
+ * An account is required to edit pages
+ * Feel free to add new pages for experimental stuff without linking it to other pages
+
+Issue tracker used only by panc so far.
+ * Would be better if we could use the Trac one as it seems to be available on SF
+
+Download menu: mainly pan currently, difficult to automate updates
+
+Documentation menu is unused as this is only plain web pages
+
+Mailing lists still hosted at CERN: next candidate for migration
+ * Create new lists with current subcribers
+ * Block submission on mailing lists at CERN
+
+QWG code and documentation still hosted at LAL
+ * Trac now available on SF, test it as it would be much easier
+ * Check if Trac DB can be reimported and how to migrate SVN (snapshot would be acceptable).
+
+User branches: no problem, create them in branches, currently unused.
+
+Announcing new tags on the mailing list: no consensus, not sure it will be manageable
+ * Would be preferable to have a dashboard, let's discuss it as part of QBT future
+
+ 
+== Quattor Datawarehousing - N. Williams ==
+
+Quattor and databases:
+ * Managing relations between objects and metadata having integrity constraints should involve a relational model and generally connected to enterprise
+ * Managing configuration behaviours should be the task of an appropriate language like PAN
+ * What is configured where ? require a DB  like CDB2SQL
+   * Not only display of existing configuration with different views but also historical views
+
+QuatView: uploads selected information from profiles into MySQL, displays with a web browser
+ * Big limitation : single timestamp
+ * Currently only MySQL but should be easy to use other back-ends
+ * Recent additions/enhancements to have the web client much more flexible and usable, eg. search on every column
+
+CDB2SQL: similar features to QuatView but without the web tool to browse the DB
+ * Use DBI API
+ * Use DB bulk insert
+ * Implemented as a server module that can run anywhere
+ * Detect changed profiles
+ * `-ora` version is in fact not Oracle specific (MySQL is still the default) but has a lot of Oracle specific additions (mainly views)
+ * `-dist` version more recent and faster but currently Orcale specific, although not hard to change
+   * cdb2sql just schedule uploads of XML that are done by a multi-threaded process
+
+Server modules:
+ * CDB and SCDB send CDP notification that profiles have changed
+ * SCDB uses a CCM CDP notification sent to the host affected
+ * CDB send a message to a server in charge of taking appropriate actions for the affected clients
+   * Involves calling cdb2sql-sync
+ 
+'''Proposal''': use cdb2sql with Quatview web interface
+ * Extend schema to provide versioned data : from underlying SCM ? from XML ?
+   * Build into the profile by panc ?
+ * Include revision tag in data
+ * Publish datawarehouse to AII instead of notifying datawarehouse and AII in //
+
+
+== Quattor and Inventory Management ==
+
+=== CERN - V. Lefébure ===
+
+CDB2SQL to retrieve information from Quattor CDB. All other applications using DB produced by CDB2SQL
+
+CERN specific schema extension to describe the HW.
+ * Include the template name describing the HW
+ * Track warranty contract ID
+ * Track power consumption
+ * Also used for machines not managed by Quattor to keep track of them in the inventory 
+
+CC Tracker: displays a geographical view  of the machines managed by Quattor
+
+HMW: application to handle installation, move, rename, retire... of a machine
+ * Form-based application with lot of parameters pre-filled with the spread sheet delivered with the machines
+ * Interconnect with other DB/apps involved: Remedy, LAN DB
+ 
+Request for new HW done by users using a Web form
+
+
+=== Morgan & Stanley Asset Management - S. d'Aquila ===
+
+''Note: M&S interested to hear feedback on how this work may be useful for the community.''
+
+Aurora was relying heavily on AFS
+ * Configuration lives into hand-crafted files, prone to human error, impossible to browse in a reasonnable amount of time
+ * Poor data quality of data about hosts
+ * No fine-grained entitlement
+
+Aquilon design goals:
+ * Model systems by what make them similar rather than different
+ * Manage resource at a higher level with no manual intervention and application-centric view
+ * Avoid NIH syndrom
+ * Vendor neutral with the option to open source
+ * Build a system it is easy to interact with
+ * Mix of declarative configuration (configure this machine as a mail server) and proscriptive configuration wher the entire configuration is under the control of a configuration management tool.
+ * Ensure consistency between server and clients configuration
+
+Why use a DB:
+ * Fast efficient retrieval of data with referential integrity
+ * Concurrency control, transaction, fine-grain locking for free
+ * Be a source of information for legacy systems
+
+Technology choices:
+ * Twisted Python: event driven network application framework
+ * SqlAlchemy: object relational mapper and SQL toolkit
+
+Assets managed:
+ * Hardware: machines and their components
+ * Real estate they occupy
+ * Namespaces: DNS domains, resetved tcp/udp, users, groups
+ * Services
+
+Lot of effort put in architecture definition and taxonomy:
+ * Personality: what is machine role ?
+ * Archetype: philosophical basis behind the build process
+   * Examples: Aquilon, Aurora, Aegis, Windows
+   * Future: clusters of VMware, network gear, SAN/NAS devices...
+ * Location:a flexible way of hierarchically organizing our stuff (regions, campus, building...)
+   * Configuration assumption: it is usually better to use a service instance local rather than remote or at least as closest as possible
+
+A system configuration is made of:
+ * Hostname (and associated interfaces)
+ * Archetype and its requirements
+ * Personality
+ * Services it uses structured as an ordered list of templates
+   * For each service, define instances: a host providing the service, its location and the template associated
+   * Service mapping responsible for automatic selection of instance based on requirements defined somewhere else like archetype, personality
+
+Future directions:
+ * Same kind of requirements for archetypes to personalities
+ * Advanced entitlement and audit capabilities
+
+
+== Quattor in Amazon Cloud - C. Loomis ==
+
+AWS vs. Xen:
+ * Network ocnfiguration: all machines have private and public IP addresses but users cannot predict or allocate them before starting the machine.
+   * Network interface uses the private address for configuration
+   * DNS contains only public address, not the private one
+   * IP address can be changed on the fly when using Elastic IP
+   * hostname command doesn't return the DNS name associated with the public IP address
+ * Installation: PXE not supported for installation of the machine, must start from an existing machine image
+ * Must use limited list of supported kernels: only RHEL5 kernels
+
+Current config:
+ * Quattor server in the cloud: quattor.stratuslab.org
+   * Only packages and profiles, no AII. Only httpd
+ * SVN at SixSq
+ * Base VM image used already has the basic quattor client installed + a script run during first boot as part of init.d to do the first ccm-fetch and ncm-ncd
+
+Issues and questions:
+ * Multiple machines can use the same profile: easy and clean way to define only one WN per site.
+ * Machine names not known at compile time : how to link batch server and clients, nfs server and clients ? How to handle late binding ?
+ * Change notifications fail : no link between profile name and machine name
+   * Allow machines to register for changes ?
+   * Move to "chat room" (Jabber?) messaging for changes ?
+ * Workflow: how to manage image disks, IP addresses, machine lifecycle ?
+ * Should Quattor manage only image instead of machines ?
+
+
+== Virtualization Update - S. Child ==
+
+Xen:
+ * ncm-xen pretty stable but needs some work
+   * Should delete managed configuration files when removed from profile
+   * Filesystems code should be removed and use ncm-filesystmes
+ * QWG helper code: "database" mapping guests to hosts, xen/configure_guests() function
+   * configure_guests() populates `/software/components/xen/domains` from guest templates, automatically set `/hardware/location` to the DOM0 host name
+ * guests and host in different cluster: a SCDB workaround implemented by adding the guest clusters in `cluster.pan.includes`
+
+Current virtualization deployment:
+ * TCD and NIKHEF: Xen + QWG
+   * NIKHEF has some local tricks for cross-cluster HW handling
+ * CERN: Xen + enclosures
+   * Enclosures are close to `XEN_DB` : a nlist of parents with their children as the value
+ * M&S: VMware + XML injection from config into hypervisor
+   * No way to manage VMware server with Quattor (black box)
+
+openvz: used by UAM, currently in testing, configured with Quattor
+
+VM migration: only proposal from Luis, on http://quattor.org
+ * Is it within the scope of Quattor or should it be integrated in some new lifecycle workflow manager ?
+ * Need to find concrete use case for VM migration ?
+
+Enclosures: generic model for host/guests dependencies
+ * VM, blades...
+ * Move to it ?
+
+
+== European FP7 Quattor Project - C. Loomis ==
+
+Goal: get additional manpower to make some significant changes to Quattor toolkit and do the documentation
+ * Currently a strong community with several developpers
+ * But no dedicated people: mainly fixing urgent problems
+
+FP7 Infastructure calls in Sept. 09 related to EGI
+ * One of them related to middleware, including tools and services for deployment
+
+Institutional requirements:
+ * Need to identify a lead member, CNRS could act
+ * Must involve typically, at least 3-5 different countries
+ * Partners must be legal bodies, including JRU
+ * Both academic and commercial partners
+
+Project requirements:
+ * Scale of funding must fit in the call guidelines.
+ * Usually significant matching effort required: european funding only covers 50-80% of the project cost
+   * Matching resources may be people and manpower
+ * Must have JRA, NA and SA componenents
+ * Must include dissemination and sustainability plans: should fit easily with the SF move
+
+Project outline proposed:
+ * NA: management, quality control, dissemination/training
+   * Pre-packaged appliance to ease starting with Quattor
+ * SA: build and test infrastructure, release management
+   * Focus on Quattor use for gLite, QWG may be a good link with production infrastructure
+ * JRA: improvement of current tools, control of cloud and virtualized resources, full lifecycle management, IPv6 support
+   * EU has a strong push on IPv6
+   * For current tools, focus on move to API allowing language independance
+ * Must take into account that SA activities are better funded than others
+
+Concrete tasks for building the project:
+ * Need to identify partners and the project activities they are interested in: must cover all major parts of the Quattor toolkit
+ * Must define the roadmap for the new features we want
+ * Determine plans for dissemination and sustainability
+
+Timeline for preparing the project:
+ * June: identify the partners and lead partner
+ * Detailed outline of project by Sept.
+ * Finalize project description and financial aspects by Dec.
+
+
+== Improving Quattor's Accessibility - C. Loomis ==
+
+Quattor jas a steep and difficult learning curve
+ * Both for users and developpers
+ * Some is linked to the comprehensive nature of the toolkit but not all
+ * Some reasons include:
+   * Inadequate documentation, despite the improvements
+   * Treating Quattor as an all or nothing affairs
+   * Leftovers from old projects
+
+Inconsistent branding: `Quattor` name is very seldom seen in the individual tools
+ * Very difficult for new users/admins to identify Quattor parts: daemons, config file names...
+   * Move all config files to `/etc/quattor`
+ * Review acronyms and change those which are not useful
+ * Need to decide what we want to change and what is the roadmap for a non disruptive change
+
+Documentation:
+ * Lack of a good overview document
+ * Incomplete and often outdated
+ * Difficult to relate to a particular release tool
+ * Automate documentation as much as possible
+   * For example, use annotation in templates to document ''public'' variables
+
+Tutorials:
+ * Very important but material often outdated
+ * Generally focused on managing a whole site with Quattor
+ * Need some tutorials on how to incrementally add Quattor to an existing management infrastructure
+ * Explore Amazon AWS as a way to provide testing resources to people who want to evaluate Quattor
+
+Multiple APIs/Tools
+ * Better document strength and weakness of similar tools (eg. SCDB/CDB)
+ * Have a good justification for multiple tools
+ * Need a way to mark deprecated components and APIs
+
+Coding practices: have a set a coding practices (at least for Perl-based components) with a good agreement but nearly completely unenforced
+
+Missing functionalities
+ * PAN: Eclipse-based editor and debugger
+ * Components: lots of duplicated code for skeleton of component, cannot run component as standalone script
+ * Hooks for monitoring Quattor status
+ * Messaging infrastructure inside Quattor
+
+MEthodology:
+ * Agree on a list of problems
+ * Evaluate te impact of fixing each of the problems
+ * Implement them along with other developments
+ * Automate as much as possible: prevent regressing problems that have been fixed
+
+
+== Quattor SW Process - C. Loomis ==
+
+Current situation:
+ * Quattor build tools mostly standardized with some adhoc checks for conventions
+ * Nightly build performed from trunk
+ * No dashboard of current state of code base
+ * Few automated tests of Quattor tools
+ * Little gathering of documentation: script exists but need to be integrated into SF
+ * No quality checks of the Perl code
+   * panc is using Java findbugs, similar things exists for Perl
+
+Continous build: suggest moving to system like [https://hudson.dev.java.net Hudson]
+ * Language agnostic
+ * Build when there is a code change
+ * Can define multiple builds and hierarchies of builds
+ * Provides a dashboard of current and past results
+ * Must be done outside SF
+
+Coding standards and development guidelines
+ * Good documents from Luis but nothing to enforce them
+ * Should start at running [http://perlcritic.com Perl::Critic]: highly configurable, large set of code checks, possibility to include project specific requirements
+
+Unit tests:
+ * Having a good set of unit tests makes refactoring and  changing code more reliable
+ * Many choices for framework for Perl: Perl's own may be easiest
+ * Need to implement in a way that many tests come along for free
+ * Not easy for NCM components as the test should include the action done: need to add ability in underlying libraries to use another root
+   * May be used for other purposes like configuring images
+
+Documentation: something like Perl::Tidy may help to generate documentation in a format easily usable in a central place
+ * Can tidy perl code extracting POD documentation and producing HTML pages
+
+Quattor build tools: contain many thing relating to code checking that should be moved to more appropriate tools
+ * Try to design a new generation of QBT starting with the core features of the current ones (probably tagging releases) and adding later checks with appropriate tools
+
+
+== Future Features ==
+
+Working groups of people collaborating in developments of new features, before a final, complete release
+ * Monitoring, visualization/datawarehousing, virtualization, messaging infrastructure...
+
+Template viewer: evaluate how to move forward based on panc output
+ * tplview still based on direct parsing of pan templates
+
+
+== Conclusions ==
+
+Decisions:
+ * Software contribution and fixes: code maintenance is a common responsability, everybody is allowed to commit a change in any component
+   * No need to get permission from the maintainer
+   * Maintainer is a person with a global overview able to help other peoples with their contributions and who may rev iew the changes
+
+Actions:
+ * Merge monitoring nagios3/ templates into the main nagios/ templates: Guillaume/Michel
+   * Short term: remove nagios3/ from branches
+ * Migrate mailing lists to SF
+ * Setup of Trac on SF: Michel
+ * Migration of QWG/SCDB to SF: Stephen/Michel, medium priority
+ * Roadmap and strategy for consistent naming of command names, config files...
+   * Perl module namespace: N. William
+   * Command names: Stephen, use `quattor-` as a common prefix
+   * Config files: Michel, move to `/etc/quattor`
+ * Proposal for a new generation QBT : Cal
+ * Evaluate possibility of a chat room in SF for support and other real-time discussions
+ * Software tools:
+   * Autobuild: Eric to look at Hudson and other continous build system
+   * Perl::Critic: Cal
+   * Test frameworks: Nick
+   * Perl::Tidy or similar tools: Stephen
+ * Review "dummy WN" hack and try to reimplement in a more sensible way: Stephen
+ * Prepare FP7 project: coordinated by Cal, expression of interest by others
+ * Make schema more modular if possible: Cal
+
+Next workshop:
+ * Proposal: Brussel for the next one, Greece for winter 2010
+   * Fix the dates with a Doodle as soon as possible, target: end of October
+ * Factor-out specific topics, like gLite templates (1/2 day before or after)
+ * // sessions for specific working groups or topics
+   * Plan 1 for FP7 project
+ * Consider day or 2 tutorial
+   * Co-located to allow contacts between developpers and users ?
+   * Tutorials at LISA or same
+ * Announce widely
+ * Fill agenda early: name programe chairs, identify main topics
+
+
+
+